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HomeMy WebLinkAbout09-08-2010 Regular MeetingFEAB MEETING MINUTES September 8, 2010 9:00 a.m. Attendees: Jim Homer, Anna Keen, Gary Gover, Garland Sims , Elaine Snyder-Conn, Ron Heveran City of Fairhope Representatives: Nancy Milford, Kim Burmeister, Steve Seay Council Representative: Rick Kingrea Honored Guests Present: Buford King , Paulette Fedor, Mike Odom, Jim Homer called the meeting to order at 9:00 a.m . Minutes: Paulette Fedor had one comment to the minutes. She will email Nancy Milford regarding the wording of what see said at the last meeting. Ron Heveran moved to accept the minutes including Paulette's wording change. Garland Sim's seconded the minutes. School Board Detention Pond: The School Board project is underway in Big Mouth Gully. Kim Burmeister said that the detention pond is being dug out by the Baldwin County School Board to increase the capacity of the pond . To Kim's knowledge, ADEM has not issued an ALR for the detention pond project at this time. ADEM is required to regulate the turbidity coming from the pond. Nancy asked if the limit for turbidity is 50 NTU. The general consensus of members of the group was that this would be determined by ADEM. The School Board submitted a drainage improvement plan on the pond to ADEM, but the submitted plan did not appear to include a BMP plan. ADEM is the regulatory authority over the project. Jim Homer added that Baldwin County School Board is not constrained by the City of Fairhope storm water regulations. They only go through an 11.52 .11 review. According to Kim, Barry contacted the School Board when the School Board pond (drainage improvement) project began last month , in regards to "No Rise" Certificate issues. Barry has since indicated that this issue has been resolved. Jim said that the pond is owned by the Baldwin County School Board. Paulette asked "who owns Stack's Gully?' Jim said he did not know the ownership of Stack's Gully. Community Garden: Elaine said the start date for the Community Garden is on September 25, 2010. All twenty lots are committed at this time, but not all of the people have paid for the plots so there may still be some openings. There are actually two community garden locations. There is one behind the K-1 center that was provided by the School Board and the City of Fairhope. The site needs fencing, storm water plan , and water needs. The City Council voted to give the Local Food Productive Initiative $6900 to improve the site for the garden purposes. Councilman Mixon asked that the LFPI hold off a year before using the money due to the current economic situation. The second site is at Homestead Village. A work day is planned for September 25, 2010. Gary Gover is the construction chief for the garden plots. Elaine said that at the last minute they were able to get some plastic decking for the gardens at a good price. Gary will be trenching and could use some help. Mac Walcott will help loosen soi l with a tractor. Storm Water Coalition: Jim Homer said that the Coalition is hosting an opening Thursday morning from 9-1 lam on September 16 , 2010 to highlight the benefits of the coalition. As a reminder, the Winn Dixie Detention Pond will be the initial priority project for the City of Fairhope. Then 3 or 4 years down the road, the restoration of Fly Creek will be put on the list. Compressed Natural Gas (CNG): Jim Homer introduced Jim Hayhurst, the President of Wise Gas. Jim Hayhurst said that he had 27 years of experience in the natural gas industry and has been President of Wise Gas for 2 years. Jim is also the acting National Sales Manager for Wise Gas , Inc. Wise Gas began as a start up company in 2008 as a full service CNG provider, and has installed several facilities in Florida, 1 in North Carolina(outside Ashville) several in Florida and is bidding on 4 facilities in the metro Atlanta area. Jim believes that CNG is the best alternative fuel solution. He thinks that electric ve hicles may not be the best solution, but will have their place in the market. He cannot convert a car to electric, but they can convert cars to CNG. Wise Gas provides the following: provide CNG vehicles, train personnel , convert vehicles, and provide fuel cards (Fuel cards are a requirement in Florida because Florida has a permitting system. Fuel cards cannot be issued until an (Alternative Fuel Permit) is applied for. Federal Grant assistance is also offered. Out of the 10 grants Wise Gas was involved in, nine of the grants were approved. The Department of Agriculture always has grants related to natural gas. Also money from stimulus is available for energy related projects. Jim said that the time that fleet managers were paying $4.00 per gallon for gas was a very difficult time. He met with some City personnel and the Mayor and asked if they had a contingency plan for $4.00 a gallon. Each city should start somewhere and have a plan. Oil prices will rise. China will drive this because 10 % of the population are using motor vehicles. Right now, there are 100 CNG facilities in California . Mr. Hayhurst showed photos of the facility in North Carolina, just outside of Ashville . The facility has a 250 hp of compression. He recommended over sizing the concrete pad during installation to accommodate compressor upgrades as well as allow for the capacity for more storage. The station cost approximately 1.25 million dollars. The station in Clearwater Florida cost 1.585 million dollars from the ground up. In February, they plan to break ground and convert their entire fleet to CNG over the next five years. One reason the Florida facility cost more was due to the impact fees which are higher in Florida. Roughly, the impact fees run approximately $8,500 per dispenser. The advantages to using natural gas are as follows: • Single source to make money • No compromise of vehicle performance. • No groundwater contamination. • Abundant supply of natural gas • CNG qualifies for grant funding • Reduces dependence on foreign oil. • Lowers fuel costs and emissions Right now, there are no cookie cutter stations . They are all designed specifically to the type of fleet a company/government maintains. However, that may be changing in the future. There is a possible franchise deal being worked on now. What type of station is designed for a franchise has yet to be determined. Wise Gas's Plan would be to do the following: • Determine the appropriate gas requirement ( both present and future) • Determine fleet requirement and vehicles in community • Evaluate the fleet vehicles for possible upgrades. • Develop a transition plan Diesel vehicles can not be converted to CNG. Converting fleets: Typically, it costs approximately $10,000 to convert a car to natural gas. Class 8 vehicles such as a street sweeper will cost approximately $52 ,000 to convert by replacing the Diesel engine with a dedicated CNG model. There are various tax credits available for various size vehicles based on tonnage. Cars are at $4 ,000 and class (8) vehicles such as refuse and tractors have a $32 ,000 tax credit available through 2010. Vehicle mechanics are typically ASE trained. Wise Gas can train personnel in the ASE Fl certification . This certification means that the mechanics could work on gaseous fuel systems like Natural Gas, Hydrogen, and Propane vehicles. It is a one day class at a cost of $1500 no matter the number of students. Ninety eight percent of the gas they use comes from the US. Two percent of the gas is liquefied natural gas (LNG) from Canada, Russia or China. Nancy raised the question about LNG because she has read there are concerns about LNG, particularly with regard to terrorism risks. Mr. Hayhurst said there are some concerns with this regard. He explained that liquefied natural gas is stored at a temperature of 260 degrees below zero . Jim explained that the gas that they get is from a well head in Texas. Paulette raised some questions about fracting and shale drilling . She brought out many issues related to the environmental impacts of the process of fracting . Jim confirmed that there can be issues but the industry has made some improvements since a Y outube video came out several years ago . Elaine Snyder Conn contributed to the concern for environmental issues, such as chemical spillage, the depth of the drilling, etc. Paulette mentioned that there were some streams that have caught on fire due to drilling process. Jim provided some details regarding the drilling process for natural gas . He said that they run a drill bit into the earth and tum it. Then they run a smaller drill bit in and pour concrete in to form a casing between the two different sized casings. Elaine ex plained that it is the chemicals in the drilling water that can create problems. It was the chemicals in the drilling water that sometimes made it into an aquifer. Jim said that sometimes shale is broken in the process of drilling. Elaine asked if they are still using sulfuric acid in the process. He said they are not using it anymore. Jim said that streams can catch fire if they don't drill deep enough. Jim said that it is important that pipelines are not drilled underneath wetlands. Jim said that the industry is more aware of these issues now and are taking steps to pump into barrels and tanks. The waste is hauled to landfills that can take toxic wastes. Elaine said that ADEM is allowing full discharge of these wastes into our streams and rivers. Jim indicated this was not a good idea. In most areas , the toxic material is actually burned off. Ron Heveran said that these issues don't have anything to do with the City of Fairhope making the decision to use natural gas for fueling and asked that the topic return to the issue of the City of Fairhope considering to use C G . Jim Hayhurst provided some comparisons of the difference between CNG and Gasoline as follows: CNG is not toxic and can be safely stored in UL rated storage containers. The flashpoint of natural gas is far greater that gasoline and is non-toxic and has a strong odor. Trucks running on CNG are much quieter than diesel. Tax credits are due to expire this year. There have been changes in diesel regulations recently which will result in higher vehicle pnces. They are required to improve the diesel with a urea additive to reduce sulfur content. According to Jim Hayhurst, no one is buying new diesel trucks. The diesel truck manufacturers are struggling in this poor economy. Jim Homer asked about the maintenance of the system once it is in. Jim Hayhurst confirmed that his company could perform service and maintenance. Once the system has been installed, a maintenance agreement will be executed. Mr. Hayhurst showed additional information regarding the costs between diesel and natural gas . EPA is deciding to relax some of the requirements for standard vehicle conversion. Generally, it can cost between $8,000 to $12,000 to convert to CNG. A Ford F150 can cost approximately $10 ,000 to convert over. If a vehicle is 5 years or older or has 100,000 + miles on it , then the government has decided to relax some of the standard requirements. This changes the average price for conversion from $10,000 to approximately $4000. The Wise Gas plan would be to create infrastructure. Convert vehicles over a 10-year period. The cost break down for gasoline to natural gas is: One therm of natural or 1,000 cubic feet at $1.10 X 1.25 = $137.50 per gallon equivalent. Steve Seay said that the City of Fairhope buys natural gas from BP and uses Gulf South Transporter. The City of Fairhope gas price is .50 cent per ccf. Since the City of Fairhope charges in ccf the City price would be approximately $1.50-1.60. Jim said if they are calculating the diesel gas equivalent the following calculation will be used: If the cost is $1.10 per therm, the diesel equivalent is calculated: $ 1. 10 per therm x 1.40 = $1.54 dge Jim said the City of Fairhope would need to be transporting to make their numbers work. Jim discussed timelines. More EPA grants are coming in 2010 and expanding in 2011 . Station construction used to take about 4-6 months but the demand is up so it would be more likely to take at least six to nine months or better to have a station constructed. Jim concluded by providing his contact information to the group. His phone is 407-766- 7941. The meeting was adjourned at 11: 15 a .m.